Nosy November ~ Who’s the nosiest of all?

So, Nosy November… 😊. Three cheers for Amy D’Orazio for suggesting such a fun theme for this month!

‘Follies and nonsense, whims and inconsistencies do divert me, I own, and I laugh at them whenever I can,’ Elizabeth said to Mr Darcy, and we have good reason to believe that Jane Austen shared that view, given the verve and panache with which she portrayed the likes of Mr Collins, Mrs Bennet, Miss Bates and all the other characters who seem to compete with each other for the title of Austen’s Most Ludicrous.

 

But who would you say is the nosiest? Mrs Jennings? Lucy Steele? Miss Bingley? Mrs Norris? Lady Catherine? Who might be the most vexing busybody at the dinner table? Or the grinch that ruins Christmas?

And as we ponder over aggravating aunts and nosy neighbours, we might as well ask ‘Hang on a minute, what about the parents?’

From what we know of them, Jane Austen’s parents seem to have been remarkable people whom she held in great affection and esteem.

So why is it that in her novels, parents are more of a trial than a comfort to her heroines?

 

Photo: BBC

Mrs Dashwood certainly is no comfort to Elinor, and by being too ready to support Marianne in her flights of fancy, Mrs Dashwood does no favours to her second daughter either.

Mr Woodhouse is a selfish hypochondriac. General Tilney is a snob and an overbearing ogre. Sir Walter Elliot cares for little else beyond his looks and his place in the Baronetage. Lord Bertram misses every sign that his sons and daughters are headed for disaster and his lady spends her days languishing on her sofa with her pug.

 

Photo: BBC

 

 

Mismatched and self-absorbed, Mr and Mrs Bennet present their daughters with a less-than-pleasing picture of conjugal felicity and domestic comfort, and as for Lady Susan, the least said of her maternal sentiments, the better.

 

 

 

Role models are few and far between, and they are given only a modest share of the limelight. We get the impression that Mr and Mrs Morland are a happy couple and a good example for their children, but we don’t see much of them. Mr and Mrs John Knightley are devoted parents, but from the little that we are told about them and their marriage, their union isn’t a true partnership. For all his friendliness, Mr Weston seems rather superficial and a too indulgent father (but then again, his second wife might be the making of him). We don’t see much of Mr and Mrs Gardiner as parents either. We can only witness their interactions with Elizabeth and, given their common sense and affectionate ways, we can picture them as principled and loving parents and a great couple.

 

 

Photo: BBC

Now that we’ve started to speculate, how do you imagine Mr and Mrs Darcy would be as parents? Would his reformation withstand the trial of Grandmama Bennet coming to Pemberley to air her views on bringing up children? Would his hackles rise if his son were to fall in love with a tradesman’s daughter, or if his own daughters were courted by gentlemen of modest fortune, by penniless officers or by the likes of John Thornton, mill-owner and tradesman extraordinaire? What would Elizabeth have to say if he baulked at such notions? Or if Lady Catherine were to poke her long nose into their affairs, sally forth to Pemberley as soon as her great-nephew or great-niece was born and insist on instructing the Darcys in the only right way of bringing up Lady Anne’s grandchildren?

It’s nice to think that Mr and Mrs Darcy would present a united front against Lady Catherine, Mrs Bennet and everyone else who would presume to interfere. They might air their differences behind closed doors (and sparks might fly on such occasions), but they are too devoted to each other to allow any outside influence to come between them.

 

Having said that, it was very tempting to imagine how Mr and Mrs Darcy might address thorny subjects before they had the chance to become a truly devoted couple.

Cue an excerpt from Mr Bennet’s Dutiful Daughter, my only foray in the realm of early-marriage scenarios. You might remember this scene. Mr Darcy has not had reason to question his behaviour and his set of values. He has not mended his ways yet, and would very much prefer that his new wife did not flaunt relations in trade. As for Elizabeth, she married for duty, not love. Each of them still has a great deal to discover about the other – and about themselves – but are they ready to discard their preconceptions?

 

Mr Bennet’s Dutiful Daughter

(Excerpt)

When she was finally driven back to Berkeley Square, she found the house just as she had left it. Mr Darcy was still out, she was told in response to a hesitant query.

Reading was not an option. Embroidery – even less. She went to work out her devils in the music room and play forceful pieces, as stormy as her heart. At least until the door opened a couple of hours later and the master of the house walked in.

Unlike the drawing room at Netherfield, the door was in her line of vision and Elizabeth noticed him at once. She stopped playing instantly, and then wished she had not, for with the turbulent and resounding notes so abruptly silenced, the room became conspicuously and ominously quiet.

She steeled herself to raise her head and meet his eyes squarely. He looked weary, his countenance drawn, as though he had slept as fitfully as she, or not at all. Wherever he had slept. She did not ask.

Nor did he ask her to continue playing, but walked slowly to the window, hands behind his back. Just as he did when he was displeased, preoccupied, uncomfortable or angry. Or, in this case, presumably all of the above. Elizabeth’s shoulders grew straight and stiff with her proverbial determination not to be intimidated at the will of others. Stubbornness, she had called it. Equally stubbornly, she refused to open her lips. It was Mr Darcy who finally broke the silence, still half-turned away from her.

“I thought you intended to go out this morning.”

“I did go out.” It was childish to deliver cryptic answers that made no reference to her altered plans. Perversely so, but be that as it may, she shrugged, goaded by his grimace. No less by the terseness of his following question:

“How was your outing?”

“Wet,” came her equally terse retort, before she grew tired of the game of cat and mouse. “I went for a lengthy drive, if you must know, and not to Gracechurch Street,” she elaborated.

He turned around at that, his back losing some of its stiffness.

“Thank you,” he offered quietly, which only served to antagonise her all the more.

Her eyes grew cold, just as the hauteur left his.

“If you are thanking me for a direct answer, then I appreciate it. If it is for the way I chose to spend the morning, I do not. I did not have the heart to call upon my aunt and uncle today, that is all.”

“Why?”

Her eyes flashed up in disbelief. He would ask her that?

“I had their feelings to consider. And frankly my own pride.”

“Your pride?

“It should not surprise you that it is not your sole prerogative. I do possess some as well, you know. Enough to keep my concerns private, and likewise the consequences of my actions.” His jaw tightened at that, but she resumed, undaunted. “As soon as I am ready to call in Gracechurch Street, I shall. I trust you will not go as far as expressly forbidding it.”

Mr Darcy gave a loud snort of exasperation.

“You know perfectly well I would not expressly forbid you anything! This is no way to treat a child, let alone a grown woman. Least of all you, much as you choose to act the part of a petulant child just now.”

Her chest swelled in indignation.

“I thank you for your candid opinion. That explains why I am treated as a petulant child rather than as your life companion and a rational creature entitled to her own wishes and opinions. No matter!” she interjected fiercely, raising her hand to forestall his interruption. “I cannot endure a repetition of that particular conversation either. What I would wish to know instead is whether I should expect to be censured like some misbehaving youngster every time I veer from your designated path. And indeed if you intend to treat your own children in this manner and raise them with as much understanding and gentle support as could be found in a military encampment. This has become a matter of concern to me of late.”

“Good Lord, Elizabeth, are you—?”

“No. I am not with child,” she cut him off mid-question, refusing to acknowledge the sudden warmth in his eyes and the disappointment that followed. “But I should like to know what I am to expect nevertheless. For all my relations’ flaws, real or imagined, I grew up assured of their love, however they chose to show it. ‘Tis bad enough that you would wish me to have precious little to do with my family and that, sadly, this would affect my children too. Must I also see them raised on a staple of stern rules, rather than unstinting love?”

From his place by the window Mr Darcy heaved a very long sigh.

“My children – your children. Can we not speak of ours, Elizabeth? And should they not have both love and solid rules to follow?”

Her lips tightened.

“Whose rules, yours or mine?”

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 

Whose rules indeed 😉?

Thanks for stopping by to read this post. I’d love to hear your thoughts on Austen’s Nosiest, on parents in her novels (Who did I miss? Are there many other good examples?) and on life at Pemberley when Baby makes three, Mrs Bennet four, Lady Catherine five – and goodness knows who else might come to visit!

Happy Holidays, and here’s to a grinch-free Christmas!

18 comments

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    • denise on November 27, 2019 at 12:19 am
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    What a wonderful post with lots to think about.

    1. So glad you liked the post, Denise! Thanks 🙂

    • Diana Birchall on November 27, 2019 at 12:40 am
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    Very enjoyable celebration of our marvelous Nosy November theme! My favorite (though extremely minor) character for Nosiness is Lucy Steele’s sister Nancy. She’s the one who listened at doors!

    1. Oh my goodness, yes! I forgot that Nancy went so far as to listen at doors. So naughty and such bad manners 😀

      Thanks so much for your kind words, Diana! I’m so glad you liked the post.

  1. Thanks for an enjoyable post with an excerpt from your novel, which I loved! A question for you relating to nosy characters (particularly because you wrote a great story about Charlotte): would you ever consider Charlotte Lucas Collins a little nosy? Perhaps because she’s Elizabeth friend, she’s not being nosy regarding Mr. Darcy (isn’t it likely that Lady Catherine found out about Darcy’s feelings for Elizabeth via Charlotte?) — only someone looking out for her friend’s best interest? What do you think?

    Interesting points about parents. Perhaps Austen understood, from a storytelling point of view, that a heroine with perfect parents makes for a dull heroine indeed. (Catherine Morland’s parents are quite sensible, it seems, so Austen had to get Catherine out of their reach and send her to Bath to stay with less sensible people.)

    That being said, I wouldn’t lump all the parents together. I don’t think Mrs. Dashwood and Mr. Bennet are in the same category as Mr. Woodhouse and Mrs. Bennet, who aren’t in the same category as General Tilney and Sir Walter Elliot. The first two have blindspots and flaws, for sure — but they love the Elinor and Elizabeth respectively, and they have enough sense about them to realize by the end of the story where they’ve gone wrong. Mr. Woodhouse and Mrs. Bennet also love their children but don’t possess a good deal of sense. And General Tilney and Sir Walter Elliot–I’m not sure they possess the capacity to love more than themselves.

    Ultimately, Austen’s brilliance comes from her ability to give all her characters flaws (even and especially the heroines and heroes). Some characters rise to the level of heroine or hero (their good sense and their strengths far outweigh the flaws), while others fall into the realm of satire (almost all flaws, but never utterly irredeemable).

    It’s because Austen refuses to make pure role models out of her characters that she wrote such superb novels.

    Thanks again for such a thought-provoking post!

    1. Thank *you* for reading it, Christina, and for sharing your thoughts!

      You’re making such great points about the parents and their different flaws. So true, they shouldn’t be lumped together. Some are far more selfish and blamable than others, and some do possess the capacity to love.

      ‘…a heroine with perfect parents makes for a dull heroine indeed.’ 😀 Yes, she does. Loved this, and loved your thoughts about Charlotte. She’s quite nosy too, come to think of it. Maybe she did spill the beans to Lady Catherine. Not necessarily with malicious intent. Maybe she *was* looking out for her friend. Maybe she had her fill of Lady Catherine’s overbearing manner and – for all her common sense and prudence and practical mind – one fine morning Charlotte might have snapped and thought that Lady Catherine should hear a thing or two about her beloved nephew and allegedly soon-to-be son-in-law 😀 .

      Thanks again for this lovely chat and for your ever so kind words about my books. I’m so glad you liked them! All the best and have a wonderful time over the holidays1

    • Glynis on November 27, 2019 at 12:28 pm
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    I hadn’t thought of the way Jane portrays parents but this is so true. Despite the fact that I’m not so familiar with some of her books (I have read them but I think I may have confirmed my favourite is P&P???) 😉, I see what you mean about there being no perfect role models!
    I think Darcy and Elizabeth would be excellent parents. They may pretend to listen to relatives (although I imagine visits by some people may be restricted !)
    I think they would shower their children with love and fun while having definite rules for behaviour. They certainly wouldn’t want their children to act like Lydia so wouldn’t spoil them.
    Thank you Joana, loved this post.

    1. I’m so glad you enjoyed the post, Glynis! Thank you!

      “I imagine visits by some people may be restricted!”
      Hehe. Indeed. Maybe Lady Catherine and Mrs Bennet would be forced to try to bribe the maids to get access to the nursery. But still no luck. Mrs Reynolds would watch from the wings like a hawk 😀

      “I think they would shower their children with love and fun while having definite rules for behaviour. They certainly wouldn’t want their children to act like Lydia so wouldn’t spoil them.”
      Loved this! I think so too 🙂 And goodness, no, not like Lydia! That thought alone would stop Darcy in his tracks whenever he would be inclined to let his daughters twist him around their little fingers.

      Thanks for reading and hope it’s not too cold and damp in Derbyshire at the moment. Or at least no more floods! Have they sorted out the gardens and fixed the flood damage, do you know?

    • Glynis on November 27, 2019 at 5:25 pm
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    As far as I know it’s all as it ever was now! Last I heard there were still a few problems in the car park but that may have been fixed by now! No more floods despite the best efforts of the never ending rain!
    I can’t remember ever seeing so many flood warnings and feel so sorry for those affected!
    Meanwhile my daughter was on evacuation alert due to the fires on Sydney’s north shore, luckily the wind didn’t blow their way but they are still praying for rain! It’s a shame we can’t send them some of ours 😉

    1. So many flood warnings! Thank goodness you were safe, and your daughter too! If only we could have sent them some of the rain when they needed it most!

      Thanks, Glynis, it’s so wonderful to hear that our Pemberley is back to normal. I need to come back, it’s been way too long! Mira and I were talking about it the other day. Don’t think either of us has seen Pemberley in winter. I mean a proper ‘winter wonderland, snow everywhere’ kind of thing. But seeing as the trains & cars come to a complete standstill on snowy days, I think our only chance of seeing Pemberley + snow is if we move to Disley 😀

      Have a nice and cosy winter, and see you soon!

    • Jennifer Redlarczyk on November 27, 2019 at 7:19 pm
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    Fun post! And great to speculate.

    1. I’m so glad you liked it, Jen! Thanks for reading and Happy Thanksgiving!

    • Carole in Canada on November 28, 2019 at 3:59 pm
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    I think I need to re-read ‘Mr. Bennet’s Dutiful Daughter’!! I do think they would make loving parents with a bit more care into steering their children’s energy into activities suited to their talents to keep them out of ‘big’ trouble. I always think of Mr. & Mrs. Darcy (Fitzwilliam’s parents) as loving and caring ones though we only hear of them even if Darcy took their strictures a little too literally. But let’s not forget Mrs. Phillips and her penchant for searching out and finding gossip! She just eggs on Mrs. Bennet in that area. Throw in Lady Lucas and the news is all over Meryton!

    Have a wonderful holiday season yourself and let us know how Derbyshire looks in winter if you do go!

    1. LOL Carole. Oh yes, all the gossipy bunch of Meryton matrons! I’d love to sit quietly in a corner, have tea and scones with Lady Lucas, Mrs Bennet, Mrs Phillips, Mrs Long and whoever else might come for tea, and listen to them as they gabble – gabble -gabble 😀 😀

      Have a magical holiday season too! Best wishes and I promise to post lots of pics if I ever see Pemberley in winter!!

    • Anji on November 28, 2019 at 4:44 pm
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    Definitely a fun and interesting post, Joana! It’s got me to thinking through all of the parents and substitute parents in Jane Austen’s six novels.

    The late Mr. Dashwood seems to have cared enough about his daughters to ask his son to ‘look after’ them but hadn’t made any particular provision for them. Surely he could have done something, even though Norland appears to have been entailed. Was he as lackadaisical as Mr. Bennet in that regard? The Middletons don’t appear to have been a love match. Indeed, Sir John seems to have a more amiable relationship with his mother-in-law than his wife; not that I’m implying anything untoward! Same goes for the Palmers; he seems to fallen into the same trap as Mr. Bennet. I can certainly imagine Mrs. Palmer developing along the same lines as Mrs. Bennet and being a silly and over-indulgent mother. Whether Mr. P. would insist on some discipline is up to our imagination. As to nosiness, definitely Mrs. Jennings and the Steele sisters, but perhaps you could also add Mrs. Palmer?

    When it comes to P&P, we all know it so well but just for completeness, I’ll say that Mrs. Phillips, Mrs. Bennet and Lady Lucas must be the nosiest people in Meryton! The Lucases probably come out top of the parenting charts amongst these three families but are trumped in a major way by the Gardiners, I believe. I guess we’d all like to imagine Elizabeth and Darcy as the perfect parents, but I expect that there’d be times when they’d have differing views about bringing up their children. It woukd never surprise me if Darcy turned out to be the softer one, given his stricter upbringing and that Elizabeth wouldn’t want to repeat the mistakes of the rather lax upbringing she and her sisters experienced, especially Lydia! One thing they could do, if Mrs. B. and Lady C. were resident at the same time is just to let them go on at each other about raising a family and simply take the kids off a bit of fun elsewhere in the estate.

    It’s hard to find anything approaching a decent set of parents in Mansfield Park, isn’t it? The Prices and the Bertrams – er, no. Admiral Crawford (as an acting parent) – definitely not! And I hate to think what sort of mother Mrs. Norris would have been, but she’d probably win the nosiness stakes hands down. Mrs. Rushworth was probably the only one who seemed to have any real care for her family.

    When it comes to nosiness and general busy-bodying amongst all of Miss Austen’s characters, it’d be hard to beat Augusta Elton from Emma. None of the established parents comes across overly well, except possibly John and Isabella Knightley, though we don’t get to see much of Mr. and Mrs. Weston with their new family. I don’t think we need to discuss Mr. Weston’s son from his first marriage!

    How much did General Tilney change after his wife’s death, I wonder. He’s certainly become quite unpleasant by the time the events of Northanger Abbey take place. The Allens seem to be quite a pleasant couple in their role as acting parents to Catherine Morland and Catherine’s parents seem to be one of the few sets of reasonable parents in all of Jane Austen’s canon. Mrs. Allen and Mrs. Thorpe would probably be the nosiest characters in the book, though Catherine has her moments at the Abbey!

    Persuasion has two sets of Musgrove parents and what a contrast they are! The senior Musgroves seem happy and jolly and reasonably good at this parenting lark (with the exception of Poor Dick, but oh dear – Mary Musgrove hasn’t a clue, has she? And Charles seems pretty clueless when it comes down to it, too. But both Mrs. Musgroves could be said to be a wee bit on the nosy side. Lady Russell tried to do her best for Anne in the absence of her mother, but does she do her any favours? The Crofts would probably have been decent parents, if they’d had any children, and it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that it could still happen after the events of the book, as Sophy is still under 40. At least one sequel has them becoming parents, I believe. If you have to pick a winner for the Persuasion parenting competition, I think it has to go to the Harvilles.

    Sorry for waffling on for so long. Guess I kind of carried away a bit!

    P. S. Thanks also for reminding us what a fantastic work MBDD is.

    1. Oh my goodness, Anji, thanks so much for this lovely post!! It’s so wonderful to chat with you again! I loved the great points you made about all these characters. Hehe, poor Mr Palmer, he really did fall in the same trap as Mr Bennet, didn’t he? Maybe it was even worse for him because his wife seems even sillier and more annoying than Mrs Bennet. Or maybe that was just the Emma Thompson adaptation. Loved Hugh Laurie, he was hilarious.

      That was so lovely, what you said about the Darcys as parents!! So sweet to imagine them thus – Darcy being the softie because of his upbringing and Elizabeth dishing out the tough love because of hers 😀 . And what a picture you painted, D & E & their kids sneaking out of the back door while Mrs B and Lady Cat are squabbling in the drawing-room 😀 😀

      Oh, and ‘dear’ Augusta! She’d give even Mrs Norris a run for her money. And Mrs Norris as a mother – I shudder to think what she’d be like. As maternal as Lady Susan, I imagine.

      Thanks so, so much for taking the time to write this, it was such a pleasure to read! Lots of hugs, all the best and have a lovely and peaceful Christmas!

        • Anji on November 30, 2019 at 5:49 pm
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        Many thanks for the kind words, Joana. It was fun taking your two themes and thinking through each novel with them in mind. I didn’t include Lady Susan, Sanditon or The Watsons as I thought I’d gone on long enough!

        P. S. I’ve just read my comment again and noticed the horrible number of typos – apologies for each and every one!

    • J. W. Garrett on November 29, 2019 at 6:57 pm
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    What a delightful post, Joana. And you really have great comments to consider. Wow! Everyone really put some thought behind their comments. Well done, guys. I don’t have anything more to add. It seems they have covered all the parents. That excerpt reminded me of why I loved that book. Poor Darcy and Elizabeth had a lot of ground to cover before their HEA. Blessings, my dear. Great job on the comments, guys. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts. Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate and soon we will have the= Christmas season upon us. Blessings, everyone.

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